Clintwood - Appy game

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cvcgrad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've heard some different accounts of the situation, and I can't speculate as to what Robbins was thinking when it happened. But, at the same time, if a referee goes far enough to eject a player, then I have to believe that they saw or heard something to warrant it. I haven't seen many players ejected from games this season. </div></div>

The rules on ejection in HS football especially are enforced too strongly in some situations and not strong enough in others--I've seen those scenarios. We can't give the crew that threw Robbins out a free pass here because if a kid throws a punch or shoves another player and they toss the kid...but don't know that the other kid did something worse to deserve what he got, then that's an uneven application of the rule. Sometimes, I think when refs see unsportsmanlike conduct, one ref sees one shove, and is ready to toss one player, when there could be two guys deserving. I love to see when all the refs get together, talk it over, and then call offsetting personal foul or unsportsmanlike penalties, that way the kids know that it's not tolerated on both sides. If only one kid is tossed when another did something far worse, then that tells the kid that's still in the game that it's okay to do what he did and he'll get away with it.

That's just how I see it. I do see your POV though, not trying to argue.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mik_Mo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jump on that bandwagon and bash Appy all you want when we're down.</div></div>



When will you be back? When you consolidate with Powell Valley?

I can agree with that.

I guess what is confusing to me is if there was absolutely nothing that happened at all, and everyone is innocent here, why was there an ejection rather than a warning?

Was this just a referee who had a beef with Robbins or Clintwood?

You will probably find out today or tomorrow if the appeal was agreed upon to allow him to play. I would say Appy and Clintwood will be meeting with who they need to today or tomorrow to find out. You all act like it Congress in action, when its really not.

From what I have gathered, I expect the kid to be allowed to play.

I would be surprised too if he doesn't play.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cvcgrad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've heard some different accounts of the situation, and I can't speculate as to what Robbins was thinking when it happened. But, at the same time, if a referee goes far enough to eject a player, then I have to believe that they saw or heard something to warrant it. I haven't seen many players ejected from games this season. </div></div>

I'm wondering how intimidating it is to have all those hugh coaches at you.

Here's how this stuff goes. In 04, TS was playing Twin Valley in the Region D playoffs. TS had a sizable lead and things got dicey. PG Wingfield's crew was calling the game. In the 3rd quarter the DE from TV punched the TE from TS. This occurred in the backfield near the QB..and the TE took his hand and shoved the DE's helmet up pushing back the kids head back. The refs first tossed out the TE from TS. Then TW's coach Vandyke came onto the field pointing at the QB saying he was the culprit..and Wingfield brings the TE back onto the field and ejects the QB from TS (Warner, who had done nothing). Therefore, he would miss the Region D championship the following week. There were at least 3 videotapes from different folks that showed the incident. The TS coach took the film personally to Altizer who wouldn't look at it, but told the TS coach at the time that if the coaches from both schools and the principals from both schools agreed, then Warner would not be suspended. The coach and principal from TW wouldn't agree that they were in the wrong either, so the thing went all the way to Ken Tilley who said that even though the QB wasn't on film fighting that none of the films ran all the way until the next play started, so it hadn't been proven to him that the TS QB did nothing. That's the kind of BS the VHSL and some officials will let go on. So, don't always give those guys the benefit of the doubt either.

LOL well football is intimidating. I don't think it's for the weak at heart.

There's some rough stuff that goes on in those piles.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cvcgrad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can agree with that.

I guess what is confusing to me is if there was absolutely nothing that happened at all, and everyone is innocent here, why was there an ejection rather than a warning?

Was this just a referee who had a beef with Robbins or Clintwood? </div></div>

Before this happened, we had already said that one of the refs had chip on his shoulder with Clintwood.

I don't bet....but if I did I'd wager the kid is watching from the sidelines sat.

We'll see

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rules on ejection in HS football especially are enforced too strongly in some situations and not strong enough in others--I've seen those scenarios. We can't give the crew that threw Robbins out a free pass here because if a kid throws a punch or shoves another player and they toss the kid...but don't know that the other kid did something worse to deserve what he got, then that's an uneven application of the rule. Sometimes, I think when refs see unsportsmanlike conduct, one ref sees one shove, and is ready to toss one player, when there could be two guys deserving. I love to see when all the refs get together, talk it over, and then call offsetting personal foul or unsportsmanlike penalties, that way the kids know that it's not tolerated on both sides. If only one kid is tossed when another did something far worse, then that tells the kid that's still in the game that it's okay to do what he did and he'll get away with it. </div></div>

Most times the refs don't see the one that starts the fight....they just notice the one that retaliates. I've noticed this too much on the next level. It's not that the refs intentionaly miss it, it's just that they happen to turn around as the second guy retaliates. Happens all the time.

I'd prefer to see him play, but judging from past VHSL actions I'd say the chances are slim and none with slim trying to sneak out the backdoor....

Considering the 2 schools involved...and knowing neither coaching staff is a bunch of crybabies..I'd say he'll suit up and play.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: waver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was at the Game, Hats off to Coach Mullins, he has never ran out to the middle of the field complaining about a player on the other Team............my opinion is that the assistant Coach for Appy not only embarrased Himself, but his College Team (Tech). Coach Mullins took his first string out of the game and that is how Appy scored their two TD's. Robbins was on the field only because Clintwood had there return team in. The only real foul I saw was on a Appy assistant Coach. It saddens me that he is Married to a Clintwood Girl. What a POOR SPORT....tell him I said that, He reminds me of a past Wise coach who wouldn't shake Clintwoods Hands after a game they won at wise 6 years ago, thank the Lord he no longer Coaches here...........and one more thing it's FOOTBALL, it's a rough game,.....grow up, be a sport or get out of the game. If your best offense is to punish a young man playing Football and defending himself....than take your spoiled, poor sport attitude to the HOUSE................. </div></div>

I figured out who he was. He is from my hometown. I can remember when he played for Tech. Sport's announcer said he was the most intimdating player and caused more personal penalties. The way they acted with the waving goodbye and saying "you don't have to shake his{Robbins} hand he won't be back". It saddens me , I grew up with his family.

Well, I'll be honest enough to say that I'm glad I don't have to make the decision about whether or not he plays Saturday.

Depending on the accounts of what happened, either something happened that shouldn't have, or absolutely nothing happened.

If you're associated with either team, its difficult to be impartial. I doubt that I could be that impartial.

As 1inStripes pointed out, it could be that its blown out of proportion and it will be resolved quickly.

Ok folks...let's get it straight right here. I played in the game Saturday and I was in the pile and standing above it when it happened. We kicked an on-side and there was a stuggle for the ball between one of our players and #44. The ref was tellin' them to get up and the Clintwood player would not get up until he had the ball and finally got it from our player..next thing you know 44 throws a punch into one of our players shoulder pad. There were 2 refs by then standing directly over the pile and no flag was thrown when it was obvious a punch was thrown. Our coaches by then were on the field...saying nothing wrong to the Clintwood player..all they wanted was a flag. The far side ref. was the one to finally throw it when the 2 directly above the pile and plainly saw it should have thrown it. There was talk on the field between the refs. and the player was ejected. While we walking through and shaking hands...44 said a smart comment to one of our players and one of our coaches...not Luke Owens like you all think..told our boy not to worry..he;s not playin next week...thats it

Dang. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DawgforLife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok folks...let's get it straight right here. I played in the game Saturday and I was in the pile and standing above it when it happened. We kicked an on-side and there was a stuggle for the ball between one of our players and #44. The ref was tellin' them to get up and the Clintwood player would not get up until he had the ball and finally got it from our player..next thing you know 44 throws a punch into one of our players shoulder pad. There were 2 refs by then standing directly over the pile and no flag was thrown when it was obvious a punch was thrown. Our coaches by then were on the field...saying nothing wrong to the Clintwood player..all they wanted was a flag. The far side ref. was the one to finally throw it when the 2 directly above the pile and plainly saw it should have thrown it. There was talk on the field between the refs. and the player was ejected. While we walking through and shaking hands...44 said a smart comment to one of our players and one of our coaches...not Luke Owens like you all think..told our boy not to worry..he;s not playin next week...thats it</div></div>

You're forgetting the part where some kid from Appy took his whole hand and pinched and clawed at Robbins' arm and wouldn't let go until Robbins hit him and shoved him off. Keep that version if you want to though, just thought I'd adjust this version of the truth with the others I've heard.

Totally unrelated to this situation, and I'm still confused about what happened in the Clintwood - Appy game, but, for a little humor...

This reminds me of something a friend told me a few years back.

Her son was playing football for one of the local teams and was ejected from the game. She was furious, so she came down from the stands to the fence and started screaming at the coaches, the referee, and was about ready to jump the fence which would have been a sight to see considering she is about 5'5, 200 + lbs. So, she was fit to be tied, but couldn't do anything about it.

After the game, her son told her he didn't do anything. She believed him; after all, he is her son. She said, "wouldn't you know it, about a week later, I saw the film and sure enough, there was Brian bent over, with the kid in a headlock just pouring it to him." She told me, "I could have killed him."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DawgforLife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok folks...let's get it straight right here. I played in the game Saturday and I was in the pile and standing above it when it happened. We kicked an on-side and there was a stuggle for the ball between one of our players and #44. The ref was tellin' them to get up and the Clintwood player would not get up until he had the ball and finally got it from our player..next thing you know 44 throws a punch into one of our players shoulder pad. There were 2 refs by then standing directly over the pile and no flag was thrown when it was obvious a punch was thrown. Our coaches by then were on the field...saying nothing wrong to the Clintwood player..all they wanted was a flag. The far side ref. was the one to finally throw it when the 2 directly above the pile and plainly saw it should have thrown it. There was talk on the field between the refs. and the player was ejected. While we walking through and shaking hands...44 said a smart comment to one of our players and one of our coaches...not Luke Owens like you all think..told our boy not to worry..he;s not playin next week...thats it </div></div>

So, it was the ref. on that side. He called several away from the play with a ref watching very closely at the play.

BTW, why aren't you in school?

I might add that Robbins may not be able to play next week, but you won't for sure.

Damn..lol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

BTW, why aren't you in school?

I might add that Robbins may not be able to play next week, but you won't for sure. </div></div>

yeah bettyboop, that's cold for an adult to lashing out at a player like that. i would have thought better of you.

Definitely a lot of discrepancies in what went down.

IMO, and I have no clue what happened here to get ejected from a playoff game it had better be a full blown fight.

That's how it should be...but there are certain crews that like to toss a player over a little bit of nothing just to assert their authority.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's how it should be...but there are certain crews that like to toss a player over a little bit of nothing just to assert their authority.</div></div>

Which is a problem that needs a check to balance it out. I don't think there are severe enough checks for the refs that like to do that (and they do exist). The refs should be a part of the game but not a part of the outcome...some don't keep that in mind though. You don't see much of that in football, but you're definitely gonna see that from game #1 in basketball on through the state games.

I guess my question is where do you draw the line?

If you are a ref and you think you see a player taking a swing at another player, you have coaches screaming for a foul, and another ref throwing the flag, what do you do?

You could take the attitude of "don't do anything until you see blood," but there's a lot of liability for letting things get out of hand.

Yep...The most blatant abuse of the ejection rule I've seen was the one in an earlier post concerning TS and TV...that was beyond pitiful.

IMO, in the playoffs, if a player is ejected, it should be for that game..and not 2 extra ones. The regular season is 10 games..and 2 additional games while stiff, doesn't have the same impact as losing a player for 2 playoff games. If a player is trying to deliberately injure another I can see it..but over a situation instigated by another player...I don't.

I sentence you to 1 hr. of constant ringing of my cowbell in you ear.

Anybody know what crew worked this game?

Probably Joe Honto's crew, they tend to get a little excited at times. I don't know if Honaker is in that crew or not.

Oh, and BTW, I say put both players in a ring and let them fight it out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: centennialdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, and BTW, I say put both players in a ring and let them fight it out. </div></div>

I'm a certified ref / judge......

You want mma, boxing or kickboxing rules. I've done all, even grappling if you don't want any blood....

Just got word that Robbins was not ejected from the game. He was penalized 15 yards.

let's go ultimate fighting, no holds barred

Funny thing is the refs didn't include the ejection in the report so it will never go in front of the principals. So technically, there was never an ejection. Don't know how that is possible when so many on here said he was ejected but Robbins is playing Saturday which I am glad for.

Listen BettyBoop or whatever the hell your name is. I didn't say anything negative about anyone. I just stated what I saw and heard. Pinching and bitting and everything goes on in the pile...that's football. Our player didn't get caught and yours did...sorry...it happens. He was ejected though..the ref. signaled the ejection and honestly..if he gets to play..it's bs. It's not fair for the others that have been ejected in games. It was an obvious punch thrown and if he get's to play..I'll be very suprised.

That is odd.

You would think the coaches would know for sure whether or not one of their players had been ejected wouldn't you?

Definitely some strange 'goings-on'.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UTVols2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is the refs didn't include the ejection in the report so it will never go in front of the principals. So technically, there was never an ejection. Don't know how that is possible when so many on here said he was ejected but Robbins is playing Saturday which I am glad for. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cvcgrad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is odd.

You would think the coaches would know for sure whether or not one of their players had been ejected wouldn't you?

Definitely some strange 'goings-on'.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UTVols2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny thing is the refs didn't include the ejection in the report so it will never go in front of the principals. So technically, there was never an ejection. Don't know how that is possible when so many on here said he was ejected but Robbins is playing Saturday which I am glad for. </div></div> </div></div>

He and his family have agonized all weekend over this. I really think what happened is the ref knew he made a mistake and changed it. I even heard that he said that on the field. Didn't know if that was true or not. Everyone on the field thought it was an ejection including coaches.